WEBVTT 00:01.975 --> 00:04.642 (chiming tones) 00:14.815 --> 00:17.398 (bright music) 00:18.925 --> 00:21.508 (upbeat music) 00:27.335 --> 00:30.168 (mid-tempo music) 00:34.080 --> 00:35.556 Hello, everyone. 00:35.556 --> 00:37.440 Jess Stainbrook here with the "InVisible InCourage Podcast," 00:37.440 --> 00:38.510 and I'm really honored today 00:38.510 --> 00:41.490 to have a special guest from the UK, Jamie Waller, 00:41.490 --> 00:45.630 who is an entrepreneur and most recently an author. 00:45.630 --> 00:48.180 So, Jamie, how are you doing today? 00:48.180 --> 00:49.110 I'm doing great, Jess. 00:49.110 --> 00:50.820 Thanks for having me on the platform. 00:50.820 --> 00:51.900 Thanks for giving me the opportunity 00:51.900 --> 00:53.730 to talk about the book and dyslexia. 00:53.730 --> 00:55.170 It's very close to my heart 00:55.170 --> 00:56.463 For sure. 00:56.463 --> 00:58.140 Well, obviously, Invisible Disabilities Association, 00:58.140 --> 01:01.080 we're all about, you know, advocating for people 01:01.080 --> 01:03.067 that live with various disabilities 01:03.067 --> 01:05.250 and a wide range of things. 01:05.250 --> 01:07.800 So I kind of wanna hear from you, 01:07.800 --> 01:09.900 like, how did this journey go? 01:09.900 --> 01:10.890 How did it start out? 01:10.890 --> 01:13.969 I mean, a lot of us, I have severe dyslexia too, 01:13.969 --> 01:18.651 so, and again, I met Jamie through his book came out 01:18.651 --> 01:22.762 just a short while ago, "The Dyslexic Edge," 01:22.762 --> 01:25.983 and it's really powerful, a lot of cool stories. 01:26.970 --> 01:31.890 And so I wanna hear kind of from the start how life went, 01:31.890 --> 01:34.230 how you struggled through school, and things like that. 01:34.230 --> 01:35.940 And just give me the journey, 01:35.940 --> 01:39.187 and, you know, how we are where we are today. 01:39.187 --> 01:42.810 Okay, well, I hope to do that in a few minutes, 01:42.810 --> 01:44.160 not to bore people too much. 01:44.160 --> 01:45.270 But look, I was- No, not at all. 01:45.270 --> 01:46.892 This is always interesting. 01:46.892 --> 01:51.000 (chuckles) I was born in East London in the UK, 01:51.000 --> 01:52.590 and for those that know the UK, 01:52.590 --> 01:56.220 East London was a very poor part of town. 01:56.220 --> 02:01.220 So I grew up dyslexic, with ADHD, poor, and colorblind, 02:01.830 --> 02:05.130 so I had to really work quite hard as a youngster 02:05.130 --> 02:07.080 to get through the school system. 02:07.080 --> 02:09.600 I started school like most people do in the UK, 02:09.600 --> 02:13.350 age 3 1/2 in nursery, and I absolutely loved it. 02:13.350 --> 02:15.660 I went to school every day. 02:15.660 --> 02:17.064 I had a great group of friends. 02:17.064 --> 02:20.280 But there was a noticeable change in academia, 02:20.280 --> 02:21.300 and that's when you went 02:21.300 --> 02:23.916 from sort of being awarded certificates 02:23.916 --> 02:27.810 and merits for good behavior for sort of table matters, 02:27.810 --> 02:30.960 for turning up on time, to your attainment in education, 02:30.960 --> 02:32.834 and that was really hard for me. 02:32.834 --> 02:34.586 Plays well with others. 02:34.586 --> 02:37.140 (chuckling) Exactly, yeah. 02:37.140 --> 02:38.289 You get a star of the week, 02:38.289 --> 02:40.792 and then all of a sudden you get nothing. 02:40.792 --> 02:43.860 But at age 10, 11 in the UK, 02:43.860 --> 02:46.650 you have to sit some entrance papers 02:46.650 --> 02:49.320 to go into your next school, your upper school, 02:49.320 --> 02:52.440 and that's when I was really isolated, 02:52.440 --> 02:53.460 because my friends, 02:53.460 --> 02:55.890 the people I'd got such great relationships with, 02:55.890 --> 02:58.873 went off to one school, and I got sent to the school 02:58.873 --> 03:01.350 where there was lots of disruptive children 03:01.350 --> 03:04.860 and children that simply weren't learning at the same rate. 03:04.860 --> 03:06.510 And I found that really hard to deal with, 03:06.510 --> 03:09.030 because I went into school bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, 03:09.030 --> 03:10.620 really willing to learn, 03:10.620 --> 03:13.860 and I got taken advantage of within the first 20 minutes. 03:13.860 --> 03:16.134 You know, I was bullied on day one, 03:16.134 --> 03:20.160 and I went from being the bullied to becoming the bully. 03:20.160 --> 03:22.470 And then I was in and out of the education system, 03:22.470 --> 03:26.252 but by the time I was 16, so from age 11 to 16, 03:26.252 --> 03:28.920 I spent about 14 months in total 03:28.920 --> 03:31.020 just simply not going to school. 03:31.020 --> 03:33.060 So that on top of my dyslexia, 03:33.060 --> 03:35.700 I'd felt I'd fallen so far behind. 03:35.700 --> 03:37.237 But teachers were just constantly telling me, 03:37.237 --> 03:39.156 "You're stupid. You don't try. 03:39.156 --> 03:42.810 You know, if you don't try harder, you'll become a binman, 03:42.810 --> 03:44.340 you know, become a garbage collector 03:44.340 --> 03:45.630 for the rest of your life." 03:45.630 --> 03:47.700 They were just constantly putting me down, 03:47.700 --> 03:50.317 and then it got to the degree where they would say to me, 03:50.317 --> 03:53.130 "If you're not gonna bother trying, don't come to my class." 03:53.130 --> 03:54.600 So I wouldn't go to their class. 03:54.600 --> 03:55.860 You know, what an option to give 03:55.860 --> 03:58.590 to a child who's really struggling. 03:58.590 --> 04:00.900 And then that just obviously caught up with me. 04:00.900 --> 04:05.070 By the time I was 16, I was simply not able to sit an exam. 04:05.070 --> 04:08.250 I just didn't have the ability to. 04:08.250 --> 04:10.470 But I was bright. 04:10.470 --> 04:12.930 Jess, I always knew that I had a lot of energy about me. 04:12.930 --> 04:14.310 I had a lot of leadership skills, 04:14.310 --> 04:17.250 you know, I would be picked to be leader of groups. 04:17.250 --> 04:18.253 I would lead my friends, 04:18.253 --> 04:22.500 if that be on, you know, naughty activity or good activity. 04:22.500 --> 04:26.220 I ran a little bike repair shop in my local street. 04:26.220 --> 04:28.257 So I wasn't really worried. 04:28.257 --> 04:31.492 I knew I just had to get out of the education system 04:31.492 --> 04:33.600 and do it on my own. 04:33.600 --> 04:37.960 It's ironic, Jamie, it's ironic how many people associate 04:39.060 --> 04:43.830 the outward expressions of a dyslexic person as stupidity. 04:43.830 --> 04:45.300 Yeah. And that's the scare- 04:45.300 --> 04:47.107 I mean, it's funny that you talked about, 04:47.107 --> 04:49.001 "Hey, so I just stopped going to school." 04:49.001 --> 04:51.583 I basically skipped all of 10th grade. 04:51.583 --> 04:52.440 Yeah. 04:52.440 --> 04:53.843 For pretty much the same reason. 04:53.843 --> 04:54.676 Yeah. 04:54.676 --> 04:55.997 Because I got tired of going 04:55.997 --> 04:59.160 and just struggling through and stuff like that. 04:59.160 --> 05:00.543 So I hear your story and- 05:00.543 --> 05:01.819 Oh, yeah. 05:01.819 --> 05:02.838 I mean, look, 05:02.838 --> 05:05.610 if you went to your local 7-Eleven every Friday, 05:05.610 --> 05:07.597 and every time you walked in, the guy said to you, 05:07.597 --> 05:10.260 "Hey, you're ugly," or, "You're stupid," 05:10.260 --> 05:12.390 you'd probably stop going to that 7-Eleven, right? 05:12.390 --> 05:16.230 I mean, you're not a glutton for punishment. 05:16.230 --> 05:18.060 You just don't want to do that, 05:18.060 --> 05:19.860 and that's what was happening at school. 05:19.860 --> 05:22.800 But not just for me, for millions of others. 05:22.800 --> 05:26.610 15% of the general population are dyslexic. 05:26.610 --> 05:29.250 That is billions of people across the world 05:29.250 --> 05:31.590 are having to deal with this today. 05:31.590 --> 05:33.840 And having just spent two years researching 05:33.840 --> 05:36.090 and writing my book, I can tell you 05:36.090 --> 05:39.600 that, yes, things have got better, but they haven't changed. 05:39.600 --> 05:42.180 There still exist in many schools, 05:42.180 --> 05:45.510 both fee-paying school, non fee-paying school, 05:45.510 --> 05:49.950 bad scores, good scores, dyslexia is not dealt with well. 05:49.950 --> 05:53.241 It's ironic because I never planned... 05:53.241 --> 05:55.950 I'm a media person by trade. 05:55.950 --> 05:59.910 I produce and direct TV shows and major motion pictures 05:59.910 --> 06:01.410 and do movies, 06:01.410 --> 06:03.780 and, I mean, that's where I live, right? 06:03.780 --> 06:05.640 I have eight Emmy awards. 06:05.640 --> 06:07.380 I mean, that's where people know me, 06:07.380 --> 06:10.620 and it's a great industry because that whole dyslexic thing 06:10.620 --> 06:11.820 doesn't come up from a... 06:11.820 --> 06:13.710 I mean, it actually, I think 06:13.710 --> 06:15.930 like it is kinda like your book says, it's my superpower. 06:15.930 --> 06:18.390 It's where my creativity thrives, right? 06:18.390 --> 06:20.400 But when you step back into this other thing 06:20.400 --> 06:23.340 called education or academia, 06:23.340 --> 06:26.610 I never had any plan of being a university professor, 06:26.610 --> 06:27.594 and yet here I am. 06:27.594 --> 06:31.080 And really what I've found in the classes that I offer 06:31.080 --> 06:35.640 is that the old traditional way, while it still happens, 06:35.640 --> 06:38.880 lectures, memorize, regurgitate, 06:38.880 --> 06:40.683 forget it, and move on, right? 06:41.670 --> 06:46.110 All of my classes are very hands-on, very experiential. 06:46.110 --> 06:48.840 And I've noticed that a lot of the students 06:48.840 --> 06:50.610 will thrive in that environment, 06:50.610 --> 06:51.840 because that traditional thing... 06:51.840 --> 06:53.700 I mean, for me, back in school, 06:53.700 --> 06:57.270 and I remember talking to different autistic folks, 06:57.270 --> 07:02.270 where, "Sit down and shut up," doesn't work at all, right? 07:02.280 --> 07:03.960 Whereas if the kid's in the back of the room, 07:03.960 --> 07:04.830 he's lookin' out the window, 07:04.830 --> 07:08.016 you don't realize he's actually paying attention. 07:08.016 --> 07:12.300 You know what I mean? And taking it all in, right? 07:12.300 --> 07:13.170 Yes, yes. 07:13.170 --> 07:15.178 And that's the important thing for people to recognize, 07:15.178 --> 07:17.005 that for a dyslexic mind, 07:17.005 --> 07:19.526 and certainly for those with ADHD, 07:19.526 --> 07:22.380 they have to be doing more than one thing at once 07:22.380 --> 07:24.510 to enable them to be taking it in. 07:24.510 --> 07:28.999 So if I'm playing with my mobile phone in a meeting, 07:28.999 --> 07:31.650 it's my way of engaging in the meeting. 07:31.650 --> 07:33.990 If I don't do that, I won't take the information in, 07:33.990 --> 07:36.360 because my mind will go off elsewhere. 07:36.360 --> 07:38.790 So I have to be doing more than one thing at once. 07:38.790 --> 07:40.410 It's the way I operate. 07:40.410 --> 07:43.380 But the problem just is if people aren't confident enough 07:43.380 --> 07:45.390 to come out and say, "I'm dyslexic," 07:45.390 --> 07:47.370 then people don't recognize 07:47.370 --> 07:49.728 their behavior isn't them being rude, 07:49.728 --> 07:52.710 it's simply their coping mechanism. 07:52.710 --> 07:55.200 You know, I interviewed a chap called Sir Charles Dunstone 07:55.200 --> 07:57.510 for the book, the owner of Carphone Warehouse. 07:57.510 --> 07:59.717 He sold his company for a couple of billion pounds, 07:59.717 --> 08:02.970 and he said that he plays computer games 08:02.970 --> 08:04.380 on his mobile phone still. 08:04.380 --> 08:07.860 Now, he's a chair of a 4 billion pound organization, 08:07.860 --> 08:09.870 and he plays video games during board meetings 08:09.870 --> 08:12.660 because it's simply the way he engages. 08:12.660 --> 08:13.800 And it's different from all, 08:13.800 --> 08:17.160 you talk about your teaching ways. 08:17.160 --> 08:20.310 I interviewed Paul Orfalea, the founder of Kinko's Print. 08:20.310 --> 08:21.746 You'll be aware of Kinko's Print. 08:21.746 --> 08:26.250 Paul equally set up that business with a $5,000 loan. 08:26.250 --> 08:28.504 It floated for about 4.2 billion, 08:28.504 --> 08:31.950 and he had like 4,000 staff across the world. 08:31.950 --> 08:33.720 ANd he's now a university lecturer 08:33.720 --> 08:36.586 at University of Southern California. 08:36.586 --> 08:39.390 And I went to Paul's house. 08:39.390 --> 08:42.090 We spent all day in his garden doing this book, 08:42.090 --> 08:45.397 and it was just lovely to see the way he has gone, 08:45.397 --> 08:47.940 "Well, I'm gonna take my way 08:47.940 --> 08:50.190 of learning into this university, 08:50.190 --> 08:52.983 into this very traditional form of education 08:52.983 --> 08:55.050 and make it different." 08:55.050 --> 08:55.883 But let's face it, 08:55.883 --> 08:58.020 the education system have known this for many years. 08:58.020 --> 08:59.250 If you go to any business school, 08:59.250 --> 09:01.710 you walk into Harvard, into Stanford, into Yale, 09:01.710 --> 09:02.789 when they teach business, 09:02.789 --> 09:04.230 they tend to try and teach it 09:04.230 --> 09:06.870 in 20-minute bite-size classes, 40 minutes maximum, 09:06.870 --> 09:08.730 give people lots of breaks. 09:08.730 --> 09:10.800 When they teach science or something like that, 09:10.800 --> 09:12.360 they go back to the traditional double, 09:12.360 --> 09:14.070 you know, two hours of science. 09:14.070 --> 09:16.980 It's not a great way to learn, not just for dyslexics, 09:16.980 --> 09:18.573 for non-dyslexics too. 09:19.560 --> 09:21.780 Yeah, no, I hear you. It's interesting. 09:21.780 --> 09:24.480 The style that I kind of call my teaching 09:24.480 --> 09:26.010 is apprentice style, right? 09:26.010 --> 09:30.900 And I actually met the author of "Apprentice Nation," 09:30.900 --> 09:33.060 Ryan Craig, with that same kind of thing 09:33.060 --> 09:35.100 of, "Hey, we're doing it wrong." 09:35.100 --> 09:35.933 You know what I mean? 09:35.933 --> 09:39.170 Like, and just kind of taking a bigger approach 09:39.170 --> 09:40.920 from an overall standpoint 09:40.920 --> 09:45.210 of when you allow people to try and experience it 09:45.210 --> 09:48.570 as opposed to just, you know, what do they say? 09:48.570 --> 09:52.860 Rather than sage on a stage be the guide on the side, right? 09:52.860 --> 09:53.693 Yeah. 09:53.693 --> 09:55.350 So you're helping people walk through it, 09:55.350 --> 09:59.324 and I've really found that a very powerful way 09:59.324 --> 10:01.200 for all of my students. 10:01.200 --> 10:03.069 And the good part is I see my students succeeding 10:03.069 --> 10:07.890 in what they had dreams in digital media to become, 10:07.890 --> 10:10.680 and really thought, "There's no way I'm ever gonna do it." 10:10.680 --> 10:11.513 You know? 10:11.513 --> 10:13.380 I mean, even parents don't really like to support it. 10:13.380 --> 10:16.320 They're like, "Well, get that accounting degree as a backup, 10:16.320 --> 10:17.310 or get a business..." 10:17.310 --> 10:18.143 You know what I mean? 10:18.143 --> 10:19.380 And I'm like, "I don't know. 10:19.380 --> 10:21.900 Like, I've made it my whole career in arts, 10:21.900 --> 10:24.300 and I think it works, you know?" 10:24.300 --> 10:27.330 And the question is can you focus or not. 10:27.330 --> 10:28.163 Absolutely. 10:28.163 --> 10:29.910 And, I mean, your career, 10:29.910 --> 10:32.640 you would've been around quite a large percentage 10:32.640 --> 10:33.720 of those with dyslexia, 10:33.720 --> 10:35.430 because they tend to gravitate 10:35.430 --> 10:37.590 towards a certain few sectors, 10:37.590 --> 10:39.630 creativity definitely one of them. 10:39.630 --> 10:40.500 I'm an entrepreneur, 10:40.500 --> 10:43.740 having built and sold many businesses through my career. 10:43.740 --> 10:48.740 You know, 35% of all entrepreneurs are dyslexic 10:48.840 --> 10:50.670 across the U.S. and the UK. 10:50.670 --> 10:54.510 40% of self-made millionaires are dyslexic. 10:54.510 --> 10:56.700 So we've gotta stop branding this 10:56.700 --> 10:59.070 as being low IQ and a big issue, right? 10:59.070 --> 11:00.330 This is not a big issue. 11:00.330 --> 11:02.700 We've all gotta remember that the process of learning 11:02.700 --> 11:05.160 in the main was created by the church. 11:05.160 --> 11:09.330 The church were fearful of losing the teaching of the Bible, 11:09.330 --> 11:11.700 and as such, they invented this thing 11:11.700 --> 11:13.231 called reading and writing. 11:13.231 --> 11:16.830 And it simply was not the right process 11:16.830 --> 11:20.203 to take information in for 15% of the population. 11:20.203 --> 11:22.200 But at the time, they were so fearful 11:22.200 --> 11:24.630 of losing the, you know, knowledge train 11:24.630 --> 11:27.263 that they didn't care as long as it dealt with the majority. 11:27.263 --> 11:29.080 The education system since 11:29.080 --> 11:31.708 has refused to pivot on this and change. 11:31.708 --> 11:33.990 So what they do is they've given it a badge 11:33.990 --> 11:36.207 because it's convenient, called dyslexia. 11:36.207 --> 11:38.610 That way they can allocate some funding to it, 11:38.610 --> 11:41.130 and they can pretend that they've done something about it. 11:41.130 --> 11:42.631 Dyslexia is not a disability. 11:42.631 --> 11:47.631 Dyslexia is a manmade error in the learning system. 11:48.251 --> 11:51.180 The learning system of today is no different 11:51.180 --> 11:53.250 to what it was a few hundred years ago, 11:53.250 --> 11:56.940 and it was simply created not with everybody in mind. 11:56.940 --> 12:00.365 So we need those with dyslexia to feel confident enough 12:00.365 --> 12:02.887 as early as possible to come out and say, 12:02.887 --> 12:04.890 "You know what? I've got dyslexia. 12:04.890 --> 12:06.371 My way of learning is different. 12:06.371 --> 12:09.150 This is where my strengths are." 12:09.150 --> 12:11.670 You know, I am great at getting up on a stage. 12:11.670 --> 12:13.920 I am great at presenting on my feet. 12:13.920 --> 12:16.560 I am great at thinking on my feet, 12:16.560 --> 12:19.110 seeing the bigger picture, exploiting, 12:19.110 --> 12:20.550 taking advantage of things, 12:20.550 --> 12:22.950 failing, getting up, trying again, 12:22.950 --> 12:25.713 all of those beautiful traits that go with dyslexia. 12:27.180 --> 12:30.390 I like in the forward that Dr. Taylor, 12:30.390 --> 12:33.480 who helped you write the book, I think, 12:33.480 --> 12:36.330 says that the research says 12:36.330 --> 12:39.491 that rather than a learning disorder 12:39.491 --> 12:43.740 it's a learning specialization, and I so agree with that. 12:43.740 --> 12:47.288 And again, that feels much more complimentary, if you will, 12:47.288 --> 12:49.800 to a skillset that people don't realize. 12:49.800 --> 12:54.800 Like you said, gosh, at least over 1/3 of the entrepreneurs 12:55.161 --> 12:58.688 are this style of thinking, right? 12:58.688 --> 13:01.740 And it's why it makes them so successful, 13:01.740 --> 13:03.990 because they don't look at things in a straight line. 13:03.990 --> 13:05.130 It's interesting. 13:05.130 --> 13:08.250 If you do personality testing, 13:08.250 --> 13:11.467 I mean, in the Emergenetics thing, for instance, 13:11.467 --> 13:15.660 I'm 50% conceptual visionary, right? 13:15.660 --> 13:17.850 I always bring the best ideas to the table. 13:17.850 --> 13:20.280 Well, I'm also 40% analytical, 13:20.280 --> 13:23.008 which means that I won't act on those ideas 13:23.008 --> 13:24.540 until I have all the data 13:24.540 --> 13:27.210 to prove that they're gonna be successful. 13:27.210 --> 13:29.760 And those personalities, right, 13:29.760 --> 13:33.120 along with the workaround, if you will, 13:33.120 --> 13:38.120 that we consistently do as dyslexics, give us this advantage 13:39.450 --> 13:42.480 of being able to see things from so many different angles 13:42.480 --> 13:44.400 that other people are just stuck in the, 13:44.400 --> 13:46.950 there's only a plan A and maybe a plan B. 13:46.950 --> 13:48.156 I mean, my dad was big on, 13:48.156 --> 13:51.090 "Dude, you go all the way to plan Z." 13:51.090 --> 13:54.060 Like it is whatever it takes to get the thing done, 13:54.060 --> 13:55.638 and we're gonna get there, right? 13:55.638 --> 13:57.068 Yeah, absolutely. 13:57.068 --> 14:00.600 And, you know, what we should recognize, 14:00.600 --> 14:02.940 and I think the world is starting to wake up to, 14:02.940 --> 14:05.580 is dyslexic thinking is a real skill. 14:05.580 --> 14:08.190 You know, actually just 10 days ago, 14:08.190 --> 14:12.900 the first ever university was launched called Dyslexic U, 14:12.900 --> 14:16.080 which is a university to teach dyslexic thinking. 14:16.080 --> 14:18.840 I was a bit ahead of that with my book, "The Dyslexic Edge," 14:18.840 --> 14:20.760 because at the end of every chapter, 14:20.760 --> 14:23.460 we digest the successful entrepreneur's story. 14:23.460 --> 14:26.850 So it features 14 separate people and their life story, 14:26.850 --> 14:29.940 and we give takeaways on how you might be able, 14:29.940 --> 14:33.300 how to implement dyslexic thinking traits of the same. 14:33.300 --> 14:36.690 So the book is not simply for those with dyslexia. 14:36.690 --> 14:37.823 It's for those without dyslexia 14:37.823 --> 14:41.430 that believe that they might want to add dyslexic thinking 14:41.430 --> 14:44.670 into their own business or their own personal development 14:44.670 --> 14:46.680 for their own success. 14:46.680 --> 14:49.470 Yeah, it's learning another process 14:49.470 --> 14:51.788 that helps people be successful 14:51.788 --> 14:55.740 in whatever industry they're involved with, right? 14:55.740 --> 14:56.573 Absolutely. 14:56.573 --> 15:00.390 But what we should not hide away from, 15:00.390 --> 15:03.960 you know, there's half of the world use the narrative 15:03.960 --> 15:06.894 that dyslexia is a deficit and it's a disability. 15:06.894 --> 15:08.106 The other half seem 15:08.106 --> 15:11.367 to very quickly get to it's a superpower. 15:11.367 --> 15:14.167 And I sit right bang in the middle, 15:14.167 --> 15:16.470 which is it has lots of powers 15:16.470 --> 15:19.710 and it has lots of beautiful things that make it brilliant, 15:19.710 --> 15:21.570 but it's still an Achilles heel. 15:21.570 --> 15:24.030 It's those with dyslexia, including me, 15:24.030 --> 15:27.150 have something every day that will impact me. 15:27.150 --> 15:29.130 Sometimes I simply get on the wrong train 15:29.130 --> 15:31.230 because I read the sign wrong 15:31.230 --> 15:34.680 in my, you know, being too quick in that process. 15:34.680 --> 15:36.480 And sometimes they're more damning, 15:36.480 --> 15:38.900 you know, where I let things build up, 15:38.900 --> 15:43.170 because, you know, the too difficult to do sits in a pile 15:43.170 --> 15:46.708 that, guess what, never gets done. (chuckling) 15:46.708 --> 15:49.260 Like, that's challenging, right? 15:49.260 --> 15:51.300 And I have to manage that every day. 15:51.300 --> 15:52.980 That's something that I have to live with. 15:52.980 --> 15:55.620 So, you know, I think it's really useful 15:55.620 --> 15:57.600 that the world is starting to talk about dyslexia 15:57.600 --> 15:58.830 and its strengths, 15:58.830 --> 16:01.410 but I don't believe we should simply go 16:01.410 --> 16:03.090 from deficit to superpower. 16:03.090 --> 16:04.613 I think we need to recognize 16:04.613 --> 16:08.490 that until things change in society, 16:08.490 --> 16:11.337 it's still really difficult being dyslexic. 16:11.337 --> 16:14.790 Well, and from our standpoint, we consider it 16:14.790 --> 16:17.940 one of the many invisible disabilities, right? 16:17.940 --> 16:19.680 You look at me, I look fine, 16:19.680 --> 16:21.090 you look good, everything's fine. 16:21.090 --> 16:23.280 Well, let's be careful with that, 16:23.280 --> 16:25.020 because again, we get into a situation 16:25.020 --> 16:27.840 where, I mean, I especially like the example in the book 16:27.840 --> 16:30.930 of, in your story, where you called out to your wife 16:30.930 --> 16:33.255 and to say, "How do you spell the word 'swimmingly'?" 16:33.255 --> 16:34.683 or something, right? 16:35.790 --> 16:39.042 And your kid popped back with the answer, right? 16:39.042 --> 16:41.602 My 7-year-old. Yeah. 16:41.602 --> 16:42.780 So I'm sat in the kitchen. 16:42.780 --> 16:44.730 My wife actually is dyslexic too, 16:44.730 --> 16:46.767 and somebody asked me earlier on about dyslexia, 16:46.767 --> 16:47.820 and is it linear? 16:47.820 --> 16:49.590 And I said, "Well, it's, you know, 16:49.590 --> 16:51.900 it's definitely on a spectrum of differences." 16:51.900 --> 16:53.854 So my wife is dyslexic. I'm dyslexic. 16:53.854 --> 16:56.310 She has to help me with spelling, 16:56.310 --> 16:57.810 and I have to help her with math. 16:57.810 --> 17:00.450 That's simply, that's how we get by. 17:00.450 --> 17:03.697 But I frequently shout across the house, 17:03.697 --> 17:05.370 "Hey, Madeline, how do I spell...?" 17:05.370 --> 17:07.429 And it's just a normal thing for me, right? 17:07.429 --> 17:09.810 And I'm sat there, as you say, 17:09.810 --> 17:12.057 I'm sat there while writing the book, 17:12.057 --> 17:13.890 and I shout across the table. 17:13.890 --> 17:15.697 I don't even look up. I'm just sort of typing. 17:15.697 --> 17:17.997 "Madeline, how do you spell 'swimming'? Is it...?" 17:17.997 --> 17:20.304 And my 7-year-old shouted back, 17:20.304 --> 17:22.770 and it was a real moment for me, Jess. 17:22.770 --> 17:26.403 I sat there and thought, "Wow, this is a real moment 17:26.403 --> 17:28.830 that I wanna capture and remember," you know? 17:28.830 --> 17:31.151 But actually I'm so proud of my 7-year-old, 17:31.151 --> 17:33.870 so proud that she had the confidence to go... 17:33.870 --> 17:36.810 And you know what, the reason I wrote this book 17:36.810 --> 17:39.600 is not because, you know, this is my second book, 17:39.600 --> 17:41.220 but this isn't because I wanted to write a book. 17:41.220 --> 17:43.230 This is because I really feel passionately 17:43.230 --> 17:45.240 about helping those with dyslexia. 17:45.240 --> 17:49.950 So I want my children to see the efforts that I'm taking 17:49.950 --> 17:51.750 to make sure this isn't an issue. 17:51.750 --> 17:53.664 I want my children to go into school 17:53.664 --> 17:57.090 and know that there's a dyslexic child in their classroom 17:57.090 --> 18:00.859 and see them as like their daddy, that they can achieve. 18:00.859 --> 18:03.240 You know, as you said at the start of this podcast, 18:03.240 --> 18:05.400 I've gone on and built and sold many businesses. 18:05.400 --> 18:07.560 I've gone from being poor to being rich. 18:07.560 --> 18:09.360 I can have anything I want, 18:09.360 --> 18:11.040 but what I want more than anything 18:11.040 --> 18:14.100 is to help those get out of the pressure 18:14.100 --> 18:15.330 of what dyslexia does to them 18:15.330 --> 18:17.310 and feel that they can achieve anything. 18:17.310 --> 18:21.930 And I hope that by, you know, sharing my story, 18:21.930 --> 18:24.090 sharing the story of Sir Richard Branson, 18:24.090 --> 18:25.821 who I happened to spend some time with 18:25.821 --> 18:27.420 while writing the book, 18:27.420 --> 18:29.647 sharing the stories of Paul Orfalea, 18:29.647 --> 18:34.230 the BBC Dragons, the Sharks, and everybody, 18:34.230 --> 18:36.390 that I can really go a long way to do that. 18:36.390 --> 18:37.980 Not just for young people, 18:37.980 --> 18:39.860 because actually we, the older, 18:39.860 --> 18:43.470 the forgotten in the world of dyslexia... 18:43.470 --> 18:44.610 I'm 45. 18:44.610 --> 18:46.290 People in my age have got the opportunity 18:46.290 --> 18:48.150 to come out and do something about it 18:48.150 --> 18:49.620 and say, "I'm dyslexic." 18:49.620 --> 18:50.580 The younger people, 18:50.580 --> 18:53.940 hopefully we are going to drive change to support them. 18:53.940 --> 18:56.490 But actually, one of the things I like to talk about a lot 18:56.490 --> 18:57.930 is if you think your mom and dad, 18:57.930 --> 19:00.105 or your grandma and your granddad might have dyslexia, 19:00.105 --> 19:02.422 help them get a diagnosis for it now. 19:02.422 --> 19:04.477 Help them realize that all those times 19:04.477 --> 19:06.360 that they were told they were stupid, 19:06.360 --> 19:07.920 or all those times they struggled, 19:07.920 --> 19:09.617 it was nothing wrong with them at all. 19:09.617 --> 19:12.420 The education system got it wrong for them. 19:12.420 --> 19:13.965 And I think that's really powerful. 19:13.965 --> 19:15.750 Nobody should go to their grave 19:15.750 --> 19:19.050 feeling that they were less able than their peer, 19:19.050 --> 19:22.800 when it simply was an error from governments. 19:22.800 --> 19:24.570 Yeah, no, I hear you on that. And it's funny. 19:24.570 --> 19:26.402 I mean, you said it well. 19:26.402 --> 19:29.940 I look at it as that thing of when you choose 19:29.940 --> 19:33.030 to move from success to significance, right? 19:33.030 --> 19:35.220 You've had success in the business world, 19:35.220 --> 19:36.630 you've created different things, 19:36.630 --> 19:38.209 and now you're moving to this point 19:38.209 --> 19:41.852 where impacting people's lives is more important, 19:41.852 --> 19:44.320 to be able to overcome 19:44.320 --> 19:48.150 and advocate for this thing we're calling dyslexia, right? 19:48.150 --> 19:50.160 I've had amazing opportunities 19:50.160 --> 19:53.688 to interview a few authors that have had dyslexia. 19:53.688 --> 19:58.440 Tommy Spaulding and his book "It's Not Just Who You Know," 19:58.440 --> 20:01.620 and just his stories about being in the business world 20:01.620 --> 20:03.000 and doing these big talks. 20:03.000 --> 20:05.040 And yet same thing, not being able to read, 20:05.040 --> 20:08.346 you know, how to get directions or anything like that. 20:08.346 --> 20:13.346 Debbie Macomber, who is the top romance novelist 20:13.920 --> 20:14.753 in the world. 20:14.753 --> 20:19.560 I think she's sold over 300 million hard copy books. 20:19.560 --> 20:22.260 She was told nonstop growing up... 20:22.260 --> 20:23.580 She always wanted to be a writer, 20:23.580 --> 20:25.830 and as a student, she was always told, "You're stupid. 20:25.830 --> 20:27.210 You're not gonna make it. You're gonna..." 20:27.210 --> 20:29.280 Well, now look at who she is, right? 20:29.280 --> 20:33.742 And it's amazing that, you know, when you speak positively 20:33.742 --> 20:36.120 of, okay, how do we turn this into something else 20:36.120 --> 20:40.953 so that it's not our downfall, it's our superpower. 20:41.910 --> 20:43.807 We still have things to overcome, 20:43.807 --> 20:45.540 and we know how to do that, 20:45.540 --> 20:47.220 and sometimes we need help with that, 20:47.220 --> 20:48.804 but it can really be beneficial 20:48.804 --> 20:53.059 in the context of launching a business or an idea 20:53.059 --> 20:56.087 into something that makes sense for others, right? 20:56.087 --> 20:57.180 It really can. 20:57.180 --> 20:58.080 And, you know, I love that. 20:58.080 --> 21:00.240 Actually I've only just thought about it 21:00.240 --> 21:01.252 as you were speaking there, 21:01.252 --> 21:04.710 you know, the power of authors actually 21:04.710 --> 21:07.260 to come out and display their dyslexia. 21:07.260 --> 21:10.560 Because another thing with what's going on at the moment 21:10.560 --> 21:12.090 with the messaging on dyslexia 21:12.090 --> 21:14.250 is it's going from deficit to superpower, 21:14.250 --> 21:15.360 but as it's going there, 21:15.360 --> 21:18.360 it's saying it's a superpower if you are creative. 21:18.360 --> 21:20.760 It's a superpower if you're an entrepreneur. 21:20.760 --> 21:21.690 So it's sort of... 21:21.690 --> 21:24.570 It's trying to put people into another bracket. 21:24.570 --> 21:26.160 It's taken you out of being dyslexic 21:26.160 --> 21:28.813 into being, "You'll be okay as long as you do this." 21:28.813 --> 21:31.259 But actually it's not true. 21:31.259 --> 21:35.100 A dyslexic brain is just a different way of doing things. 21:35.100 --> 21:37.350 They can become novelists. 21:37.350 --> 21:40.230 They can be TV or film directors. 21:40.230 --> 21:43.680 They can be drivers. They can be laundromat people. 21:43.680 --> 21:45.540 They can be whatever they want to be. 21:45.540 --> 21:48.300 Their journey to get there is going to be slightly different 21:48.300 --> 21:51.120 from a neurotypical person, 21:51.120 --> 21:52.890 but that doesn't mean we shouldn't. 21:52.890 --> 21:54.600 And I've only thought about it since you were talking, 21:54.600 --> 21:55.710 and I'm gonna give it some more thought, 21:55.710 --> 21:56.910 because it's lovely actually. 21:56.910 --> 21:59.137 We shouldn't be simply trying to say, 21:59.137 --> 22:02.550 "Well, you could all go off and become TV directors," 22:02.550 --> 22:04.770 or, "You can all go off and become creatives 22:04.770 --> 22:05.910 or entrepreneurs." 22:05.910 --> 22:06.930 They can become- 22:06.930 --> 22:09.450 Here's something that doesn't need your reading skills 22:09.450 --> 22:12.180 or your comprehension, right? 22:12.180 --> 22:14.130 You can do this based off the idea. 22:14.130 --> 22:15.060 You're right. 22:15.060 --> 22:17.940 You can't just pigeonhole into this other space. 22:17.940 --> 22:19.920 You could probably do anything. 22:19.920 --> 22:21.354 I mean, it's ironic. 22:21.354 --> 22:23.249 Becoming a university professor, 22:23.249 --> 22:24.990 one of the requirements 22:24.990 --> 22:26.850 is you have to have your master's degree, 22:26.850 --> 22:28.650 and I didn't have my master's degree. 22:28.650 --> 22:31.230 And I put it off and they let me slide for a while, 22:31.230 --> 22:32.317 and then they finally said, 22:32.317 --> 22:33.739 "You know what, dude? You need this." 22:33.739 --> 22:35.880 And I was so petrified 22:35.880 --> 22:38.550 because I've always done horrible in school. 22:38.550 --> 22:41.794 And I gotta say that my wife is really smart, 22:41.794 --> 22:43.879 all my kids are really smart, 22:43.879 --> 22:47.659 and they offered to help me through the process 22:47.659 --> 22:50.133 by helping me read the books 22:50.133 --> 22:53.640 and telling me about the books that I had to read 22:53.640 --> 22:55.740 that were part of that requirement. 22:55.740 --> 22:57.090 'Cause, you know, the master's degree 22:57.090 --> 23:00.900 was read four chapters a night and write this paper on it, 23:00.900 --> 23:01.952 and then have this online discussion. 23:01.952 --> 23:03.720 I'm like, worst... 23:03.720 --> 23:06.840 Like, I'm gonna fail. I'm going to fail, man. 23:06.840 --> 23:08.539 It's gonna be horrible. 23:08.539 --> 23:11.280 And it's funny because I came out of the first class 23:11.280 --> 23:12.300 and the second class, 23:12.300 --> 23:17.250 and I've always been the C, D, and F student. 23:17.250 --> 23:18.697 And there's a joke in the family of, 23:18.697 --> 23:20.336 "Oh, Dad's just the dumb one," right? 23:20.336 --> 23:23.850 I mean, kiddingly from an academic standpoint. 23:23.850 --> 23:25.110 They know what I do, 23:25.110 --> 23:27.360 and they respect all that, and that's fine. 23:27.360 --> 23:30.570 But when I got an A in these classes, Jamie, 23:30.570 --> 23:33.847 my wife literally kind of looked at me like, 23:33.847 --> 23:35.963 "Is everything...?" Like, "What's going on, man?" 23:35.963 --> 23:39.570 And it continued. And they're like, "Oh my gosh." 23:39.570 --> 23:40.403 And it's funny, 23:40.403 --> 23:42.367 'cause my youngest daughter has always said, 23:42.367 --> 23:44.490 "Well, I'm just like Dad. I'm more of the athlete. 23:44.490 --> 23:47.400 You know, I play soccer. That's all I do. 23:47.400 --> 23:49.350 I'm not so good in school." 23:49.350 --> 23:53.190 This changed everybody's impression. 23:53.190 --> 23:55.470 And the way they thought about themselves, 23:55.470 --> 23:56.592 to go, "Wait a second. 23:56.592 --> 24:00.843 If dad who doesn't know how to read can do it, 24:01.800 --> 24:03.240 we can do anything." 24:03.240 --> 24:04.320 You know what I mean? 24:04.320 --> 24:05.670 It's so powerful, eh? 24:05.670 --> 24:08.310 And that's why, guess what, I could have written a book. 24:08.310 --> 24:10.470 I could have worked with Dr. Helen Taylor 24:10.470 --> 24:13.200 and just taken the research and written about it, 24:13.200 --> 24:15.981 but the reason I wanted to make it case study-led 24:15.981 --> 24:19.590 is because I wanted people from a diverse background. 24:19.590 --> 24:21.750 So I wanted to feature diversity. 24:21.750 --> 24:24.330 We have female, male, gay, straight, 24:24.330 --> 24:27.510 Black, white, Hispanic, Indian. 24:27.510 --> 24:31.440 You know, we wanted a diverse 14 individuals to feature, 24:31.440 --> 24:32.850 because dyslexia, 24:32.850 --> 24:34.830 the way you deal with dyslexia in childhood 24:34.830 --> 24:36.913 is very different if you're... 24:36.913 --> 24:38.061 You know, I'm really fortunate. 24:38.061 --> 24:43.061 I was born British, white, and English-speaking, right? 24:43.980 --> 24:46.710 That is a huge advantage to some of the other people. 24:46.710 --> 24:48.627 Big advantage. Yeah. Big advantage. 24:48.627 --> 24:52.440 And I had a mother that absolutely adored me, 24:52.440 --> 24:55.830 that gave me everything that she could have ever given me. 24:55.830 --> 24:57.510 She gave me all my confidence. 24:57.510 --> 25:00.270 She told me that love and confidence 25:00.270 --> 25:01.830 is all a child needs to succeed, 25:01.830 --> 25:04.920 and I believed it, and I went on to succeed. 25:04.920 --> 25:06.228 Some people don't have that. 25:06.228 --> 25:09.060 So, and we need to recognize that, right? 25:09.060 --> 25:13.410 That, you know, if you are born Black 25:13.410 --> 25:16.380 as an immigrant into a country with dyslexia, 25:16.380 --> 25:17.820 go into a new school, 25:17.820 --> 25:20.310 your experience of it is gonna be very different 25:20.310 --> 25:23.790 than if you are born white, American, and English-speaking. 25:23.790 --> 25:28.350 So we are all privileged in our own little ways, 25:28.350 --> 25:31.680 the same way the Black immigrant will be privileged 25:31.680 --> 25:33.900 over a different class of immigrants, you know? 25:33.900 --> 25:36.060 So everybody needs to recognize 25:36.060 --> 25:41.060 that the way to deal with this, again, 25:41.303 --> 25:44.490 simply can't be written down on a piece of paper. 25:44.490 --> 25:47.887 It's about giving people the confidence to say, 25:47.887 --> 25:49.800 "I'm dyslexic and I need help," 25:49.800 --> 25:52.500 and then not to have the stigma attached to it, 25:52.500 --> 25:54.990 to enable that to be a smooth process. 25:54.990 --> 25:57.060 Because without a doubt, 25:57.060 --> 25:59.070 the education system is not going to change. 25:59.070 --> 26:02.040 You know, I've just come from a TV interview 26:02.040 --> 26:05.557 where I was asked on live TV, 26:05.557 --> 26:07.470 "What do you think the impact of AI 26:07.470 --> 26:09.150 will be on the education system, 26:09.150 --> 26:11.040 and do you think it will change the education system 26:11.040 --> 26:14.310 and to enable dyslexic people to learn differently?" 26:14.310 --> 26:18.240 And I'm like, "Hey, we still haven't embraced spellcheck." 26:18.240 --> 26:20.430 The education system still doesn't want spellcheck 26:20.430 --> 26:21.570 to be in the classroom. 26:21.570 --> 26:23.280 Why are they gonna embrace AI? 26:23.280 --> 26:26.910 I mean, we are tens and tens of years away from that. 26:26.910 --> 26:30.990 Right now what we can do is keep on lobbying for change, 26:30.990 --> 26:32.076 but in the process, 26:32.076 --> 26:35.310 change the way people talk and feel about it, 26:35.310 --> 26:36.960 because that's something that we can control. 26:36.960 --> 26:38.553 We can control the narrative. 26:39.690 --> 26:42.870 That's awesome. You know, it's ironic. 26:42.870 --> 26:44.090 I had written an article, 26:44.090 --> 26:46.469 'cause I do a little newsletter thing on LinkedIn, 26:46.469 --> 26:48.869 and I was doing my dyslexic one 26:48.869 --> 26:52.470 when your book popped up on my list, right? 26:52.470 --> 26:55.168 And it was funny, 'cause I was doing a very similar example 26:55.168 --> 26:59.850 of in Chapter 1, you know, the Cliff Weitzman, right? 26:59.850 --> 27:04.850 He talks about what's 4,342 divided by 16. (laughing) 27:08.190 --> 27:11.550 Seeing that example as the now try to read a book 27:11.550 --> 27:13.382 or a sentence, right? 27:13.382 --> 27:17.700 And it was a really good analogy 27:17.700 --> 27:19.800 that I think spoke to a lot of people. 27:19.800 --> 27:23.040 I got a lot of good feedback on that article, 27:23.040 --> 27:25.590 of people like, "Oh, now I get it." 27:25.590 --> 27:27.689 And I will say that there's so many things 27:27.689 --> 27:30.600 that as people live with invisible disabilities, 27:30.600 --> 27:32.370 where people can't see 'em, right? 27:32.370 --> 27:36.843 I guess my final question to you is advice, 27:37.860 --> 27:39.753 you know, final thoughts and insight 27:39.753 --> 27:42.686 as somebody like yourself 27:42.686 --> 27:46.290 dealing with a particular invisible disability 27:46.290 --> 27:48.720 and pressing into the things 27:48.720 --> 27:50.523 that our culture have for us today. 27:51.510 --> 27:54.202 So the most powerful thing that I've witnessed 27:54.202 --> 27:57.267 in my life of 45 years 27:57.267 --> 27:59.850 and my two years of research in this subject 27:59.850 --> 28:02.520 and speaking to people around the world 28:02.520 --> 28:04.770 has been the ability 28:04.770 --> 28:08.010 to what I like to call that coming out moment. 28:08.010 --> 28:12.690 I hid my dyslexia successfully for 36 years. 28:12.690 --> 28:14.520 It was only when I woke up in the morning 28:14.520 --> 28:15.870 after selling my first business 28:15.870 --> 28:18.262 with a bank balance bigger than a telephone book 28:18.262 --> 28:20.220 that I felt that I had the confidence 28:20.220 --> 28:22.170 to be able to go out and tell people the truth. 28:22.170 --> 28:24.090 Now, that's simply wrong. 28:24.090 --> 28:27.900 It's wrong to have kept me pigeonholed for 36 years, 28:27.900 --> 28:30.306 because I couldn't be my best self. 28:30.306 --> 28:34.200 And who knows what I could have been, you know, by now, 28:34.200 --> 28:35.970 and I've achieved a lot already. 28:35.970 --> 28:39.090 So I simply say, give people the confidence 28:39.090 --> 28:42.090 to come out whatever their invisible disability is, 28:42.090 --> 28:44.250 to tell people what it is, 28:44.250 --> 28:47.850 because the moment you do, you can then seek the assistance. 28:47.850 --> 28:49.440 I mean, I don't get help. 28:50.767 --> 28:52.950 You know, I don't have special technology 28:52.950 --> 28:54.228 to help me write an email, 28:54.228 --> 28:57.360 but I have my wife or now my 7-year-old daughter 28:57.360 --> 28:58.830 that can help me spell. 28:58.830 --> 29:00.000 So, but if I don't- 29:00.000 --> 29:02.247 Or Grammarly, right? AI. 29:02.247 --> 29:05.130 Or Grammarly or Speechify. You talk about Cliff. 29:05.130 --> 29:08.700 You know, but if I didn't tell people that I was dyslexic, 29:08.700 --> 29:10.260 then it would be really strange 29:10.260 --> 29:13.710 that I asked my 7-year-old daughter how to spell "swimming." 29:13.710 --> 29:16.860 But because she knows I'm dyslexic, it's perfectly normal. 29:16.860 --> 29:19.980 She gets so much from helping me, right? 29:19.980 --> 29:21.690 And I get so much from it too. 29:21.690 --> 29:23.787 My wife helps me, I help her. 29:23.787 --> 29:26.400 And as a unit, as a family, 29:26.400 --> 29:28.920 you know, my wife and I have two girls, seven and eight, 29:28.920 --> 29:31.140 I would say we're quite powerful. 29:31.140 --> 29:33.067 And we've got probably three dyslexic 29:33.067 --> 29:35.700 amongst the four of us. 29:35.700 --> 29:39.179 And I would, you know, we are a force for good, 29:39.179 --> 29:40.020 and we're going out 29:40.020 --> 29:41.537 and we're trying to change the world day, 29:41.537 --> 29:44.100 through, whether it be our business activity 29:44.100 --> 29:46.443 or our philanthropy help, 29:47.280 --> 29:50.201 and just simple stuff like this, sharing our message 29:50.201 --> 29:52.740 and trying to get other people 29:52.740 --> 29:55.050 to feel better about themself, 29:55.050 --> 29:56.900 to come out and say, "You know what?" 29:58.549 --> 30:01.320 I feel a bit emotional talking about this, 30:01.320 --> 30:04.380 but I was just literally at lunch a couple of weeks ago 30:04.380 --> 30:09.360 with somebody I've really grown to really like for, 30:09.360 --> 30:10.890 I've only known him a year, 30:10.890 --> 30:13.015 and he's a TV star here in the UK, 30:13.015 --> 30:17.190 and his TV persona is he's very tough. 30:17.190 --> 30:19.083 He's got arms the size of my legs. 30:20.520 --> 30:23.761 And we were having lunch and we sat down, 30:23.761 --> 30:26.850 and he says, "Is this an Asian place?" 30:26.850 --> 30:29.635 I said, "Yeah." And he was like, "Okay." 30:29.635 --> 30:30.870 And I was like, "Are you okay?" 30:30.870 --> 30:32.310 And he was like, "Well..." 30:32.310 --> 30:33.330 And he had never told me. 30:33.330 --> 30:36.390 And he said, "I've got a severe nut allergy, but it's okay. 30:36.390 --> 30:38.100 I carry a pen." 30:38.100 --> 30:41.913 And he started rummaging around in his bag for a pen. 30:43.032 --> 30:44.954 And I was just- For the EpiPen. 30:44.954 --> 30:45.787 For the EpiPen. 30:45.787 --> 30:49.560 And I was like, "Zach, we just change restaurants, buddy." 30:49.560 --> 30:50.393 Right? 30:50.393 --> 30:52.327 Like, "You're not gonna sit with your..." 30:52.327 --> 30:53.160 "I'm not gonna have you..." 30:53.160 --> 30:55.230 There's fish and chips right next door. 30:55.230 --> 30:56.063 Let's not die over this. 30:56.063 --> 30:58.560 I'm like, I'm sat next to him like this. 30:58.560 --> 31:01.080 And I'm like, "Okay, take a bite. We'll see if you're okay." 31:01.080 --> 31:03.540 I'm like, "This is an unreasonable risk to take 31:03.540 --> 31:05.190 to catch up over lunch." 31:05.190 --> 31:08.040 But the nature that he told me 31:08.040 --> 31:09.870 that he doesn't like to tell people 31:09.870 --> 31:12.270 because it feels like a weakness for this strong... 31:12.270 --> 31:14.730 That he's on a TV program out here 31:14.730 --> 31:16.740 where they're beating each other up and stuff. 31:16.740 --> 31:20.460 He's like, "I don't wanna tell people I got a nut allergy." 31:20.460 --> 31:21.780 It's crazy, right? 31:21.780 --> 31:22.920 So he was willing to sit there 31:22.920 --> 31:26.760 with a pen next to him while eating, you know, an EpiPen, 31:26.760 --> 31:30.510 waiting for me to jump over and bring him back to life. 31:30.510 --> 31:31.860 It's the same. 31:31.860 --> 31:34.260 That shouldn't be the world any of us live in. 31:34.260 --> 31:35.640 If you've got dyslexia, 31:35.640 --> 31:37.080 you should be able to say you've got dyslexia. 31:37.080 --> 31:38.730 If you're like me and you've got ADHD, 31:38.730 --> 31:40.200 come out and tell people. 31:40.200 --> 31:43.068 If you've got a nut allergy or whatever, 31:43.068 --> 31:45.840 the moment we come out and share our stories, 31:45.840 --> 31:47.400 we can be our true selves. 31:47.400 --> 31:49.233 And there is nothing more powerful in life 31:49.233 --> 31:51.303 than being your true self. 31:52.710 --> 31:53.571 That's awesome. 31:53.571 --> 31:55.668 Before we kind of wrap things up, 31:55.668 --> 31:57.716 and I appreciate your time here today, 31:57.716 --> 32:01.020 I see a stack of envelopes next to you. 32:01.020 --> 32:02.220 I know what that's for, 32:02.220 --> 32:04.680 'cause I've been following you on LinkedIn, 32:04.680 --> 32:05.910 but gimme a little bit 32:05.910 --> 32:08.610 about what you're doing this week specifically. 32:08.610 --> 32:10.936 Well, this week is Dyslexia Awareness Week, 32:10.936 --> 32:15.936 and unfortunately the resources I have available to me, 32:16.050 --> 32:18.150 if I could, I would get the publisher 32:18.150 --> 32:20.730 to send a free book to every school in the world, 32:20.730 --> 32:23.310 but I simply don't have the resources to do that. 32:23.310 --> 32:25.980 But what I have done is I've run a campaign on LinkedIn 32:25.980 --> 32:27.570 that says any of my connections 32:27.570 --> 32:29.760 or anybody that happens to see a post, 32:29.760 --> 32:31.140 if they direct message me, 32:31.140 --> 32:33.690 I will get them a copy of the book for free. 32:33.690 --> 32:36.750 But I do try and finish every podcast with this message. 32:36.750 --> 32:41.750 And so this is Free Books for Schools campaign 32:42.060 --> 32:42.893 that I'm running. 32:42.893 --> 32:45.719 So every day I'm packed in hundreds of these, well noticed. 32:45.719 --> 32:48.000 And it's been quite tireless. 32:48.000 --> 32:48.833 I started at 2:30. 32:48.833 --> 32:51.570 I woke up at 2:30 yesterday morning 32:51.570 --> 32:52.980 and went back to bed at five. 32:52.980 --> 32:55.650 I was doing this, but I love it actually. 32:55.650 --> 32:58.170 But taking that to one, side, that's for schools. 32:58.170 --> 33:00.300 I do like to end every podcast 33:00.300 --> 33:03.330 with if there is genuinely any listener 33:03.330 --> 33:05.681 or viewer of this podcast 33:05.681 --> 33:08.520 that cannot afford a copy of this book, 33:08.520 --> 33:11.070 they can simply reach out to me at my website 33:11.070 --> 33:14.520 or on LinkedIn and I will personally get them a copy. 33:14.520 --> 33:15.900 This is not about selling books. 33:15.900 --> 33:17.670 This is about helping people. 33:17.670 --> 33:18.750 Website is my name. 33:18.750 --> 33:22.800 So it's jamiewaller.co.uk, and you can reach me on LinkedIn. 33:22.800 --> 33:25.770 And you can get the book, "The Dyslexic Edge" on Amazon, 33:25.770 --> 33:29.970 all major book stores, and in all formats globally. 33:29.970 --> 33:31.050 Well, that's awesome. 33:31.050 --> 33:32.850 Well, thanks so much for joining us today. 33:32.850 --> 33:34.770 Really appreciate the conversation, 33:34.770 --> 33:36.477 and obviously folks for watching. 33:36.477 --> 33:38.430 You know, you heard Jamie talk about, 33:38.430 --> 33:42.330 you can go to his website and ask for a book, 33:42.330 --> 33:43.950 but, you know, we'd like to support him, 33:43.950 --> 33:46.110 so whether that's buying it through his website 33:46.110 --> 33:47.670 or on Amazon, that would be great. 33:47.670 --> 33:50.160 And of course, as we live with invisible disabilities, 33:50.160 --> 33:50.993 this is part of it, 33:50.993 --> 33:53.100 that people who are dyslexic and things like that. 33:53.100 --> 33:56.760 So again, really appreciate the conversation, Jamie. 33:56.760 --> 33:58.410 Thank you. 33:58.410 --> 34:01.383 All right, and we'll see you guys on the next episode. 34:01.383 --> 34:04.216 (mid-tempo music) 34:18.867 --> 34:21.450 (bright music)